Post by fugly on Mar 10, 2010 19:57:57 GMT -6
As posted by Rodney on the old board:
Rodney Byrd
1961 Plymouths Rock!
« on: January 05, 2008, 01:09:48 PM »
Hi!
I just discovered your website, having followed "Fugly" from early "under construction" pictures I found years ago, to seeing pics in event coverage from racing mags. This car is the holy grail of pre-'62 nostalgia MoPars! I was always impressed with Ray Brock's '62 Chrysler Newport "HOT ROD" magazine special from back in the day (before I was even born ), and wanted an early "Forward Look" car with a big block and cross rams. Brock's car had a 413 modified with 405hp short internal divider long rams with the solid 405hp cam (.480" lift), and with 4.88 gears and crude homemade headers, ran 12.88s back then at 4100#! Inspired by this and already being awestruck by the 1961 Plymouths bizarre yet lovable styling, I decided to embark on a new project. My goal was to find a '61 Ply and make a race only sled out of it! A friend of mine lived in a little town 15mi south of me, and around the corner from his house was, of all things, a '61 Savoy 2dr. post, slant 6, 3spd column shift! The car was at an old used car lot that was closed, with the inventory still there, rotting away. The odd thing was, all the other cars around the Savoy had windows smashed, tires and rims stolen, and parts missing. But the Plymouth was unmolested in every way! It was as if the car was too freaky looking to even vandalize! Or, like Christine, she had powers! I envisioned her with a 383, domed TRW pistons, a solid Isky cam, a tunnel-ram and an 833 4spd! The 8 3/4 rear would have to do, with a mini spool and a 4.56 gearset. These plans were being made back in the '80s,when I was making maybe $150 a week as a part time mechanic (at a small mom&pop type Chry/Ply Dealership in our small town) and going to college. All my buddies had Chevelles, Novas, Dusters,Road Runners, etc. in various states of tune and primer, and they universally thought I was CRAZY! Not only was the car butt ugly, but it was huge and heavy, the ultimate combination for a slug. I still wanted it, bad. My funds were low, and I was still living at home with my folks, so the prospects for buying and storing this animal were slim. Then, before I could act, someone saw the car on a flatbed trailer,crushed, leaving that little town. I headed down there after work, worried but broke at the same time, to see if the worst had truly happened. It was true, all that was left of all the cars at the lot was shattered glass and debris from the crusher, which must have set-up and crushed right there! I was shattered. Lack of money, space,etc. had robbed me of my Plymouth. Over the years, I lamented the loss and wished for another solid car to get and modify.10 years later I heard of one 100mi west of us and traveled with cash in hand to look at it. Same type of car, a post Savoy, but a 318 poly Powerflite driveline. Advertised as a good driver, already in primer, bodywork done, it was really a bondo bucket with crudely repaired rust and serious brake problems. Once again, hopes dashed. Fast forward 5 more years and I sell a '70 Challenger R/T to a guy in North Carolina who has a '61 Suburban 4dr Ply wagon!
He loves his wagon and won't sell it (I couldn't afford it anyway, it was MINT with a 413 added and Torq Thrusts!) but knows a guy in Canada who has a Belvedere 2dr htp. for sale. I called the guy in Canada three weeks before Christmas 2004 and we talked. He sent pictures and we negotiated a deal, his Christmas was going to be on me! My buddy Charles and I drove 1000mi one way to get the Belvedere on Dec 18,2004. We had to battle fatigue and lake effect blizzard conditions on the way back, but made it in 48hrs round trip! Now I had a '61, FINALLY! She's got typical rotten floorboards and some sheetmetal rust, but overall is solid. I got NOS headlamp rings, tail lamp and reverse lamp lenses, a Stewart Warner old school tachometer, and a vintage Hurst shifter with the deal. I plan to get the floors repaired and work on the driveline soon. I measured the rear end, and it appears that an E-body rear is a bolt in, and Super Stock 3800# springs will fit like a glove! I have both of these, as well as a 4.56 full spool 35spl "chunk" ready to go. Then I plan to install a 727 with a 9 1/2" Dynamic converter. I have a 475" B block stroker built for her, with Max Wedge ported Indy SR heads and 4150 sp intake, Ross domed pistons, BME alum rods, and the Zeeker crossbolt main conversion. A Comp roller cam with 304-308/276-280/.704-.660"/110LSA specs will actuate Comp solid roller lifters, Manton pushrods and Probe billet rockers on Dvorak shafts and hardware. A 1000cfm Quickfuel carb and custom 2-2 1/8 step headers with collector mufflers will do the ins and outs. A lot remains to be done, but thanks to "Fugly", I have inspiration, and can see why I never gave up!!
P.S. I scored some 405hp "short" long rams and a '61 4dr Suburban wagon over the years, too. Maybe I could take a 440 block and......
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 04:31:26 PM »
Cool sounding car- another guy from Michagan called me for specs to do a 61 racecar, and somebody in Jersey built and advertised one as the only and the fastest in the world (high 11's I believe )-sent him a link here and he calls occasionally-got any pictures? I'll put them up here with a description if you want.
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 06:44:04 PM »
Hey man!
That was quick! Hope I didn't bore you with my life story, I'm just passionate about MoPars and especially my '61s!!! I have a few cell phone camera pics, but nothing high quality. Am shopping for a digital camera now that Christmas is behind us, to list some stuff on Ebay, so I'll try to send some in asap. The fastback style roof is growing on me, but my first love was the Savoy post like Fugly. The motor is kinda neat, too, with the crossbolt conversion, so I may send some shots of it as well. It's still under construction, so I may be on the Diamondback forum some for advice. Before I discovered you guys, Nick Wilson of Compu-Flow helped me with my heads and camshaft selection. I build motors for street/strip cars and a few bracket type motors, but this is my highest-tech motor yet. Does it sound like a good combo? Thanks for the response!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 08:18:42 PM »
Combo sounds good -cam could be a little better, but not worth changing. Hopefully the SS springs are the pre Mexico ones as the new ones don't last long. Espo springs has some HD springs that work well. Be careful (check them once a year) with the comp rollers-they tend to splay at the foot....send the phone pics if you want and we'll put them up for now-damon@diamondbackengines.com
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 09:28:11 PM »
Thanks for your interest!
I bought most of these parts over the years, which I guess is good on the springs, I have the older ones for this application. You're right, the 3000# SS springs I put under a friend's Dart Sport (446,MP .590", L2295F, 1050 TeamG, 4.86, etc.) were the" HECHO IN MEXICO" models. The camshaft lobes chosen were, at the time, fairly aggressive but this was before I knew about Ultradyne,etc. The car it was to be run in was lighter, but a pro-street, limited use type car. I since went full race with that vehicle, and never used the cam. I thought the heavy '61 would like the mild profile better than a 284/290 or something like a Duster would be able to run. I have been warned (including by Nick) to beware of the Comp lifters, and am debating a change there,possibly relegating the Comps to a street roller type usage (175#seat,> 500 max nose). One guy that I trust recommends Crower's, I am curious about Isky's as I have seen people thrash their stuff for years with success (I like their valvesprings). At the PRI show, they gave me a flier that showed a needle bearing- free upgrade available on their "RedZone" lifters, that uses a (bronze?) alloy "sleeve" type insert and a special axle to spread the load better. Of course it won't be available for MoPars 'till last, they still don't make a MoPar LA small block roller lifter for the stock 59deg. block! They promised me those several years back... I'm rambling again. Phone pics on the way!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 01:15:46 PM »
The Isky's and Crowers are nice , but a bit pricey> I use Bullet rollers- been in Fugly for 4 years. The Major angles and acceleration rates on my lobes are steeper than anything you can buy over the counter. We developed these over a 3 year period after picking what we thought were the best features of the others.They are competitively priced and seem to hold up well. ( I am running over 700 lift, leave the line between 5400-6500 depending on the track and shift at 7300-7600... We also have a drop in small block lifter, although I have not tried them on R series blocks yet.
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 09:15:00 PM »
Thanks for the info! Can I price these parts on the Diamondback site, or should I call? I am building a 416, 12.5+:1, Indybrock, Ultradyne roller smallblock in a stock, poured, Milodon angle 4 bolt capped block, and will need a drop in lifter for it soon. I may consider a Bullet stick for my '61, since the shortblock is done, less cam, timing cover,etc. I can sell the Comp stick, or use it in something else. I want to stay just below .700 net lift to extend life of rocker gear and springs. I need to weigh the beast and know tire size, etc. so we can "spec it out". I do need the lowdown on the lifters for the smallblock pretty soon... Let me know the best way to get the 411 on them!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 09:29:56 PM »
give me a call-281-201-6210-I am often away from the phone, but if you leave a message I'll call back
poppaj
Newbie
Re: roller lifters
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 06:51:42 PM »
I like the Lunati roller lifters the best...Workmanship is great and they can handle big cam profiles..I have a custom ground Bullet roller that Damon and Mark hooked me up with...It's .695/.705 lift. I ran it a 540 cu.in. it took my
3500# - 65' Coronet to a best of 9.25@over146 mph...
Good luck on your project!
poppaj
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2008, 01:10:53 PM »
Thanks for the input, Poppaj!!!
I haven't ever seen a Lunati roller lifter for a BB Chry., but their other stuff is good as a general rule. I went to the Summit retail store in Ga. and asked to see a set, but they did not even have the part # in their system! When Harold had to close Ultradyne and went to work @lunati, I was able to get all of his" fast rate of lift" stuff from them (and still can), and the quality was excellent. Later I discovered that Bullet was selling the same lobes available from them, but I have not tried one yet,I plan on getting with Damon soon on that... gotta be able to put my money where my (big) mouth is!!!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 10:19:44 PM »
Those were a development we worked on for a couple years while Mark was at Lunati. He is now at Bullet / ultradyne and the same lifters are available there as well as the drop in small block (to .675 lift) mechanicacl rollers- we just finished testing on those late last year. Without breaking the bank , I know of no better...
Rodney Byrd
1961 Plymouths Rock!
« on: January 05, 2008, 01:09:48 PM »
Hi!
I just discovered your website, having followed "Fugly" from early "under construction" pictures I found years ago, to seeing pics in event coverage from racing mags. This car is the holy grail of pre-'62 nostalgia MoPars! I was always impressed with Ray Brock's '62 Chrysler Newport "HOT ROD" magazine special from back in the day (before I was even born ), and wanted an early "Forward Look" car with a big block and cross rams. Brock's car had a 413 modified with 405hp short internal divider long rams with the solid 405hp cam (.480" lift), and with 4.88 gears and crude homemade headers, ran 12.88s back then at 4100#! Inspired by this and already being awestruck by the 1961 Plymouths bizarre yet lovable styling, I decided to embark on a new project. My goal was to find a '61 Ply and make a race only sled out of it! A friend of mine lived in a little town 15mi south of me, and around the corner from his house was, of all things, a '61 Savoy 2dr. post, slant 6, 3spd column shift! The car was at an old used car lot that was closed, with the inventory still there, rotting away. The odd thing was, all the other cars around the Savoy had windows smashed, tires and rims stolen, and parts missing. But the Plymouth was unmolested in every way! It was as if the car was too freaky looking to even vandalize! Or, like Christine, she had powers! I envisioned her with a 383, domed TRW pistons, a solid Isky cam, a tunnel-ram and an 833 4spd! The 8 3/4 rear would have to do, with a mini spool and a 4.56 gearset. These plans were being made back in the '80s,when I was making maybe $150 a week as a part time mechanic (at a small mom&pop type Chry/Ply Dealership in our small town) and going to college. All my buddies had Chevelles, Novas, Dusters,Road Runners, etc. in various states of tune and primer, and they universally thought I was CRAZY! Not only was the car butt ugly, but it was huge and heavy, the ultimate combination for a slug. I still wanted it, bad. My funds were low, and I was still living at home with my folks, so the prospects for buying and storing this animal were slim. Then, before I could act, someone saw the car on a flatbed trailer,crushed, leaving that little town. I headed down there after work, worried but broke at the same time, to see if the worst had truly happened. It was true, all that was left of all the cars at the lot was shattered glass and debris from the crusher, which must have set-up and crushed right there! I was shattered. Lack of money, space,etc. had robbed me of my Plymouth. Over the years, I lamented the loss and wished for another solid car to get and modify.10 years later I heard of one 100mi west of us and traveled with cash in hand to look at it. Same type of car, a post Savoy, but a 318 poly Powerflite driveline. Advertised as a good driver, already in primer, bodywork done, it was really a bondo bucket with crudely repaired rust and serious brake problems. Once again, hopes dashed. Fast forward 5 more years and I sell a '70 Challenger R/T to a guy in North Carolina who has a '61 Suburban 4dr Ply wagon!
He loves his wagon and won't sell it (I couldn't afford it anyway, it was MINT with a 413 added and Torq Thrusts!) but knows a guy in Canada who has a Belvedere 2dr htp. for sale. I called the guy in Canada three weeks before Christmas 2004 and we talked. He sent pictures and we negotiated a deal, his Christmas was going to be on me! My buddy Charles and I drove 1000mi one way to get the Belvedere on Dec 18,2004. We had to battle fatigue and lake effect blizzard conditions on the way back, but made it in 48hrs round trip! Now I had a '61, FINALLY! She's got typical rotten floorboards and some sheetmetal rust, but overall is solid. I got NOS headlamp rings, tail lamp and reverse lamp lenses, a Stewart Warner old school tachometer, and a vintage Hurst shifter with the deal. I plan to get the floors repaired and work on the driveline soon. I measured the rear end, and it appears that an E-body rear is a bolt in, and Super Stock 3800# springs will fit like a glove! I have both of these, as well as a 4.56 full spool 35spl "chunk" ready to go. Then I plan to install a 727 with a 9 1/2" Dynamic converter. I have a 475" B block stroker built for her, with Max Wedge ported Indy SR heads and 4150 sp intake, Ross domed pistons, BME alum rods, and the Zeeker crossbolt main conversion. A Comp roller cam with 304-308/276-280/.704-.660"/110LSA specs will actuate Comp solid roller lifters, Manton pushrods and Probe billet rockers on Dvorak shafts and hardware. A 1000cfm Quickfuel carb and custom 2-2 1/8 step headers with collector mufflers will do the ins and outs. A lot remains to be done, but thanks to "Fugly", I have inspiration, and can see why I never gave up!!
P.S. I scored some 405hp "short" long rams and a '61 4dr Suburban wagon over the years, too. Maybe I could take a 440 block and......
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 04:31:26 PM »
Cool sounding car- another guy from Michagan called me for specs to do a 61 racecar, and somebody in Jersey built and advertised one as the only and the fastest in the world (high 11's I believe )-sent him a link here and he calls occasionally-got any pictures? I'll put them up here with a description if you want.
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 06:44:04 PM »
Hey man!
That was quick! Hope I didn't bore you with my life story, I'm just passionate about MoPars and especially my '61s!!! I have a few cell phone camera pics, but nothing high quality. Am shopping for a digital camera now that Christmas is behind us, to list some stuff on Ebay, so I'll try to send some in asap. The fastback style roof is growing on me, but my first love was the Savoy post like Fugly. The motor is kinda neat, too, with the crossbolt conversion, so I may send some shots of it as well. It's still under construction, so I may be on the Diamondback forum some for advice. Before I discovered you guys, Nick Wilson of Compu-Flow helped me with my heads and camshaft selection. I build motors for street/strip cars and a few bracket type motors, but this is my highest-tech motor yet. Does it sound like a good combo? Thanks for the response!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 08:18:42 PM »
Combo sounds good -cam could be a little better, but not worth changing. Hopefully the SS springs are the pre Mexico ones as the new ones don't last long. Espo springs has some HD springs that work well. Be careful (check them once a year) with the comp rollers-they tend to splay at the foot....send the phone pics if you want and we'll put them up for now-damon@diamondbackengines.com
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 09:28:11 PM »
Thanks for your interest!
I bought most of these parts over the years, which I guess is good on the springs, I have the older ones for this application. You're right, the 3000# SS springs I put under a friend's Dart Sport (446,MP .590", L2295F, 1050 TeamG, 4.86, etc.) were the" HECHO IN MEXICO" models. The camshaft lobes chosen were, at the time, fairly aggressive but this was before I knew about Ultradyne,etc. The car it was to be run in was lighter, but a pro-street, limited use type car. I since went full race with that vehicle, and never used the cam. I thought the heavy '61 would like the mild profile better than a 284/290 or something like a Duster would be able to run. I have been warned (including by Nick) to beware of the Comp lifters, and am debating a change there,possibly relegating the Comps to a street roller type usage (175#seat,> 500 max nose). One guy that I trust recommends Crower's, I am curious about Isky's as I have seen people thrash their stuff for years with success (I like their valvesprings). At the PRI show, they gave me a flier that showed a needle bearing- free upgrade available on their "RedZone" lifters, that uses a (bronze?) alloy "sleeve" type insert and a special axle to spread the load better. Of course it won't be available for MoPars 'till last, they still don't make a MoPar LA small block roller lifter for the stock 59deg. block! They promised me those several years back... I'm rambling again. Phone pics on the way!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 01:15:46 PM »
The Isky's and Crowers are nice , but a bit pricey> I use Bullet rollers- been in Fugly for 4 years. The Major angles and acceleration rates on my lobes are steeper than anything you can buy over the counter. We developed these over a 3 year period after picking what we thought were the best features of the others.They are competitively priced and seem to hold up well. ( I am running over 700 lift, leave the line between 5400-6500 depending on the track and shift at 7300-7600... We also have a drop in small block lifter, although I have not tried them on R series blocks yet.
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 09:15:00 PM »
Thanks for the info! Can I price these parts on the Diamondback site, or should I call? I am building a 416, 12.5+:1, Indybrock, Ultradyne roller smallblock in a stock, poured, Milodon angle 4 bolt capped block, and will need a drop in lifter for it soon. I may consider a Bullet stick for my '61, since the shortblock is done, less cam, timing cover,etc. I can sell the Comp stick, or use it in something else. I want to stay just below .700 net lift to extend life of rocker gear and springs. I need to weigh the beast and know tire size, etc. so we can "spec it out". I do need the lowdown on the lifters for the smallblock pretty soon... Let me know the best way to get the 411 on them!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 09:29:56 PM »
give me a call-281-201-6210-I am often away from the phone, but if you leave a message I'll call back
poppaj
Newbie
Re: roller lifters
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 06:51:42 PM »
I like the Lunati roller lifters the best...Workmanship is great and they can handle big cam profiles..I have a custom ground Bullet roller that Damon and Mark hooked me up with...It's .695/.705 lift. I ran it a 540 cu.in. it took my
3500# - 65' Coronet to a best of 9.25@over146 mph...
Good luck on your project!
poppaj
Rodney Byrd
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2008, 01:10:53 PM »
Thanks for the input, Poppaj!!!
I haven't ever seen a Lunati roller lifter for a BB Chry., but their other stuff is good as a general rule. I went to the Summit retail store in Ga. and asked to see a set, but they did not even have the part # in their system! When Harold had to close Ultradyne and went to work @lunati, I was able to get all of his" fast rate of lift" stuff from them (and still can), and the quality was excellent. Later I discovered that Bullet was selling the same lobes available from them, but I have not tried one yet,I plan on getting with Damon soon on that... gotta be able to put my money where my (big) mouth is!!!
Fugly
Re: 1961 Plymouths Rock!
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 10:19:44 PM »
Those were a development we worked on for a couple years while Mark was at Lunati. He is now at Bullet / ultradyne and the same lifters are available there as well as the drop in small block (to .675 lift) mechanicacl rollers- we just finished testing on those late last year. Without breaking the bank , I know of no better...